tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post5844072990376742617..comments2024-01-19T00:21:36.058-05:00Comments on View from the Deadbox: Federations, Legitimacy & the *real* World CupBaca Locohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-3522951376840642962013-09-23T10:02:46.330-04:002013-09-23T10:02:46.330-04:00943 Anon
While largely true that's not the pri...943 Anon<br />While largely true that's not the principle reason to federate (for most of those who favor the idea.) At root it's about government sanction and even support.Baca Locohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-37916709946432372322013-09-23T09:43:15.886-04:002013-09-23T09:43:15.886-04:00We can conclude that a federation is pointless, be...We can conclude that a federation is pointless, because high quality competition is possible without federations and without being included in the Olympics.<br /><br />The Olympics is not that great of a goal. The majority of the sports garner a marginal, passing interest once every four years, then are forgotten.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-49165547262992779582013-09-21T15:12:52.948-04:002013-09-21T15:12:52.948-04:00Err... Shooting is different. More real and more ...Err... Shooting is different. More real and more prone to security issues. Boxing has been banned in the past actually. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-14835626794667879202013-09-21T09:35:51.763-04:002013-09-21T09:35:51.763-04:00But, it's ok for an iranian to beat an israeli...But, it's ok for an iranian to beat an israeli to a bloody pulp in a boxing ring?<br /><br />So, we can conclude a federation is pointless, because the IOC would never accept a "violent" game on their programme.... <br /><br />I get it now, thanks for showing me the light :DNick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-31579746146971727562013-09-20T16:41:21.961-04:002013-09-20T16:41:21.961-04:00Ya you're right. It's not as if the prior ...Ya you're right. It's not as if the prior summer games could possibly let their views of "guns" influence their decisions. Everyone knows there is no political intrique, corruption, and bias in the Olympics. Why, it's as pure-hearted as the United Nations or Washington DC itself.<br /><br />Oh, btw, they attempted to ban children from -watching- clay pigeon shooting at the previous Olympics. It was overturned after a huge outcry, but the attempt was still made.<br /><br />Sorry, as long as we play a sport where we shoot at each other, you will not get to see a team of Iranians shoot at a team of Isrealis in the Olympics. Cervantesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-16330839747595141672013-09-20T13:51:57.812-04:002013-09-20T13:51:57.812-04:00Politics has no bearing on paintball being an olym...Politics has no bearing on paintball being an olympic sport.... fencing, boxing and various martial arts are one the programme.<br /><br />Yes, paintball is watchable.... the suspense of a really good snake battle or 1 on 1 duel trancends being a paintballer.... I have had many non-paintballer friends say that over the years, and some became paintballers because of it - that's the whole freaking point Reiner.... if we can find a way to display why we love this sport, people will get it!<br /><br />I'm sick of people in paintball saying it can't be done - ofcourse it can, it's just a question of finding the method - and like it or not - Mattys storytelling method works, and is a great step in the right direction.<br /><br />Paintballers need to stop bickering about the little things, and focus on the big picture.Nick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-4836678451014838502013-09-20T13:34:34.309-04:002013-09-20T13:34:34.309-04:00"paintball does not work well in that medium&..."paintball does not work well in that medium"<br /><br />So Paintall Access is a failure then? I thought what they are doing works pretty damn well and myself and just about everyone I know would rather watch it than half of the sports in the Olympics.<br /><br />The reason why we won't get on the Olympics has nothing to do with watchability. It's everything to do with the political sensitivities of those who call the shots.Don Q.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-68929985606577612622013-09-20T11:05:44.997-04:002013-09-20T11:05:44.997-04:00<>
Are you sure about that? There are lots...<><br /><br />Are you sure about that? There are lots of organized federations for sports that no one cares about (see list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_international_sport_federations )<br /><br />People see paintball on TV as a pipedream because paintball does not work well in that medium. A federation doesn't make it watchable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-37709398196022323452013-09-20T09:19:48.129-04:002013-09-20T09:19:48.129-04:00I always look at efforts to grow the pie positivel...I always look at efforts to grow the pie positively, unless they are costing me money...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-33591222076984553132013-09-20T01:29:56.774-04:002013-09-20T01:29:56.774-04:00"they all have structure"... and can all..."they all have structure"... and can all be easily viewed. Olympics and TV are businesses that need viewers. Stuff that doesn't get viewers, gets dropped (or doesn't get added in the first place). You can't sell stuff that people won't watch it doesn't matter how much structure it has.Reiner Schaferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11735297279972068471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-90396081861613169112013-09-19T18:41:20.989-04:002013-09-19T18:41:20.989-04:00Anon 343
The federation structure is key to all k...Anon 343<br /><br />The federation structure is key to all kinds of recognition by the established sports and media structures of the world, and that is where the growth will come from.<br /><br />Every sport in the world was at our stage, at some point... and very few, if any, had such a valuable industry and such strong grassroots, at our current stage.<br /><br />The pessimists, that always say talks of olympics and tv coverage are pipedreams, fail to see that paintball is a far larger sport/industry, than many that are currently televised regularly and/or featured on the olympic programme.<br /><br />An official structure is what paintball is missing, to take the next step.<br /><br />And yes, bla bla bla, paintball does not have a focal point, like football or tennis... it's semantics..... synchronized swimming, trampoline and archery are on the olympic programme, and they all have smaller industries, and smaller numbers of participants.... but they have structure!Nick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-73609307113126183312013-09-19T17:14:34.661-04:002013-09-19T17:14:34.661-04:00Another way to look at this...
Dye tries to grab ...Another way to look at this...<br /><br />Dye tries to grab power through market share and running tournaments.<br />Laurent tries to grab power through organizing federations.<br /><br />You might say the federation is more democratic, but really it's not. It's a select group of interested people working to put themselves in a position of (limited) power to accomplish their goals.<br /><br />On the other hand, you have willing groups of customers giving Dye their purchasing power and Dye using that to accomplish their goals, which presumably at some level their customers agree with.<br /><br />So I wouldn't say one is more democratic or even more legitimate than the other.<br /><br />And based on how quickly a company can fall a part if it goes out of wack in the eyes of its customers, compared to high tightly bureaucracies cling to control (and insist on more of it when things don't work out), it might even be better for the "top dog" to be corporate based, rather than federation based.<br /><br />But you can't get around the fact that at the local state level the federations can serve a valuable purpose.<br /><br />I'd agree that the EU version of the federations is probably premature and possibly not even necessary for most tasks. Where it has been helpful, again to my understanding, is in helping to mitigate annual schedules across the leagues in the various countries.<br />The Ingenious Gentlemannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-90466627605158411492013-09-19T15:43:38.558-04:002013-09-19T15:43:38.558-04:00"And actually, every single industry person s..."And actually, every single industry person should feel the same, because if he pulls it off, the paintball marketshare will increase dramatically, world wide."<br /><br />-------<br /><br />Having a legit, well-run governing body does not guarantee dramatically more people playing paintball. I'll grant you that yes, you will be able to get more people in some new markets where a governing body could help to remove bans on the game being played. But in places where it is already widespread, I fail to see how it will get more people who aren't playing now, playing later. I think 'dramatically' increased market share is a bit of a stretch.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-72736283678961595072013-09-19T14:04:56.115-04:002013-09-19T14:04:56.115-04:00Very informed and valid questions, I'll try to...Very informed and valid questions, I'll try to give my (fairly) informed answers:<br /><br />1. No federations gathered to set up the EPBF, itøs wholly Laurents brainchild<br /><br />2. Nobody voted for the current board, some were put there by Laurent, some are on it by default, because their federations were the first to sign up<br /><br />3. I'd like to see the by-laws also, and have requested them at some point, and got an answer that they were "in the works" (insert ironic joke about MS rulebook here :D)<br /><br />4. I have no idea, you should aks Laurent or the contact person on the EPBF website... but I would assume they want the federation to be able to stand up to scrutiny, before they try gaining prepoer recognition<br /><br />You are absolutely right that the federation is currently just a (poorly) wielded tool for the MS.... but I actually believe Laurent has good intentions here, and sees this as the long term solution to paintball becoming a bonafide sport.<br /><br />And actually, every single industry person should feel the same, because if he pulls it off, the paintball marketshare will increase dramatically, world wide.Nick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-88792476812958245112013-09-19T12:26:56.349-04:002013-09-19T12:26:56.349-04:00La Mancha
Thanks. If your take is accurate it sugg...La Mancha<br />Thanks. If your take is accurate it suggests at least some of the national entities are serving their intended function. Unfortunately it doesn't (necessarily) follow that the EPBF is or considering the list of topics in committee, that it's even capable of functioning as an umbrella federation for the national ones.<br /><br />1017 Anon<br />The EPBF (and the broader international plan) have been in the works for years. That's one of the reasons I wonder about their priorities and goals. It appears the EPBF hasn't actually done much of any of the basics--not even by their own standards.Baca Locohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-4774684679990190602013-09-19T10:17:11.797-04:002013-09-19T10:17:11.797-04:00Does this have anything to do with the CPS league ...Does this have anything to do with the CPS league partnering with the PSP? <br /><br />Maybe... the MS feels threatened by the leagues and they are trying to control the power by setting up the federations. <br /><br />We all understand at the end of the day it's about power control and money. <br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-6762528281749675842013-09-19T06:31:03.573-04:002013-09-19T06:31:03.573-04:00The federations really have their act together. In...The federations really have their act together. In France they just got the age lowered to 12 at which you could play. Very impressive considering the bureaucracy. In Italy they got paintball legalized. <br /><br />They do some other work, but in this light projecting or protecting incumbent power of the Millennium is just a small aspect. Really it's navigating the bureaucracy of their governments, which is necessary considering the heavy "legal state" (not sure the best way to put it) in Europe. <br /><br />In America, traditionally we can get away with just about anything. So the Federation then would only serve to limit League power (if it was grassroots) or more likely protect it. We can't realistically deal with state laws and variations (which are relatively lax anyway) through a federal level federation. We'd need state federations... Which wold actually be interesting. <br /><br />I have heard of the French federation sanctioning Laurent over his prior cps outburst and the German one get Manfred commit to to back off his ownership of the DPL and letting it be run by the federation. <br /><br />In some ways the federation proponents who actually are active parts of it do remind me of starry-eyed idealist revolutionaries of an early day in Europe. Quick to assume they have the answers on a Grand scale but no more able to make an improvement collectively than the status quo powers. <br /><br />But on the bureaucratic level in Europe they are indispensable. La Manchanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-19822380321725896472013-09-18T23:18:48.106-04:002013-09-18T23:18:48.106-04:00I know you are but what am I?I know you are but what am I?Baca Locohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-72090929386158399162013-09-18T22:04:58.136-04:002013-09-18T22:04:58.136-04:00you are a narcissist
you are a narcissist<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com