tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post7277754408966743085..comments2024-01-19T00:21:36.058-05:00Comments on View from the Deadbox: PSP versus AXBLBaca Locohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-39519975642717389832009-02-26T00:05:00.000-05:002009-02-26T00:05:00.000-05:00It's all Strange's fault.It's all Strange's fault.raehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14311405248370629057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-8797862372550116772009-02-25T18:29:00.000-05:002009-02-25T18:29:00.000-05:00AnonRegarding prizes and package structures you ar...Anon<BR/>Regarding prizes and package structures you aren't the only one thinking that way. There is a lot of sympathy for something along those lines but I don't think anyone has figured out a way they are comfortable with for changing the status quo largely because it will be seen as taking away from one group to give to another.Baca Locohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-11780128981394733242009-02-22T01:23:00.000-05:002009-02-22T01:23:00.000-05:00^^there shouldnt really be a season winner for D-3...^^there shouldnt really be a season winner for D-3; if you have the financial stability to fly 10 guys to 4 different events and use that much paint, and pay that much entry, and hotels ETC. you should be able to practice more then the 50% of teams who are locals coming out for a good time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-73713757030369732642009-02-22T01:21:00.000-05:002009-02-22T01:21:00.000-05:00Let me put a little more thought into it:There is ...Let me put a little more thought into it:<BR/><BR/>There is no suprise there is a huge lack of D-1 teams; there is little to no incentive for teams to be at that level. Most if not all of them are very close to the Semi-Pro level, and most play the entire season.<BR/><BR/>The structure needs to *reward* those players having scratched and clawed thier way up. It goes hand in hand with what someone was saying over on the nation about new players playing more; just like rentals pay 60$ twice a year for 500 rounds of paint, alot of D-3 players only play once every year.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Also, the players who commit for the season (and the franchises that support them) deserve a voice, opionon, vote in the league; its thier money and time that keep it a-flot<BR/><BR/><BR/>All in all, forget about the financials; its just plain fun to think about your team "owning" a D-1 through Pro franchise. Just in the name change you could hear players say "hey, I want to play on the bushwackers D-2 team, they Own a prospot so I could likely go somewhere.<BR/><BR/>Or the prospective team starter who recruits a bunch of D-2 guys has the "goal" of earning a spot to buy a D-1 franchise. THe bad D-1 players are fighting with each other to not get relegated out of thier spot.<BR/><BR/>This brings me to a new point: change the prize structure to encourage this even more:<BR/><BR/>D-3 - tiny, every event<BR/>D-2- decent, every event<BR/>D-1, season prize+ prize for winning Cup.<BR/>Semi-pro Same<BR/>Pro SameAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-87518386955984247202009-02-21T00:46:00.000-05:002009-02-21T00:46:00.000-05:00RaehlWill respond tomorrow. Haven't read your repl...Raehl<BR/>Will respond tomorrow. Haven't read your reply yet and it's been a long day.Baca Locohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-54511648912615492582009-02-20T20:49:00.000-05:002009-02-20T20:49:00.000-05:00But some people in the PSP can/should/do commit to...But some people in the PSP can/should/do commit to the entire season (D1-Pro)<BR/><BR/>There are not enough D-1 teams in D-1 because the structure doesn't cut them the break they need, after having scratched and clawed thier way up there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-15128206436403640072009-02-19T23:50:00.000-05:002009-02-19T23:50:00.000-05:00I still don't see what exactly the difference is b...I still don't see what exactly the difference is between AXBL and PSP, except:<BR/><BR/>- AXBL doesn't let you play unless you pay for the full season up-front, and<BR/>- AXBL is regional and PSP is national.<BR/><BR/>The only other difference is format.<BR/><BR/>Baca, you said:<BR/><BR/>"Here then is the critical item: Despite drawing a preponderance of its teams from a much smaller geographical area the AXBL has consistently maintained a full league."<BR/><BR/>What do you mean, DESPITE? That's half the reason the league is "consistent"! That's like saying "Despite being round, the ball rolled down the hill surprisingly well!"<BR/><BR/>AXBL has a more "consistent" league for primarily two reasons:<BR/><BR/>1) The smaller geographical area<BR/>2) They simply don't let anyone play who isn't going to play the whole season.<BR/><BR/>PSP can be every bit as stable as AXBL, as long as they cut their events down to three fields, two days, and don't let anyone play unless they pay for the full season up front.<BR/><BR/><BR/>You're right, dissecting an argument is what I always do, because if your argument is crap, you don't have a point, you have a fantasy. You start with information that isn't true, apply logic that is bunk, and reach a conclusion that is, obviously, disconnected from reality.<BR/><BR/>And before you try and bust out that ad-hominem "psp shill" retort in defense of your non-point again, remember that the NCPA has pretty much exactly the same league structure as AXBL, and had it first, so I'm obviously a fan. I don't think I said anything bad about AXBL; I said that your conclusion as to why AXBL was more consistent was mistaken.raehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14311405248370629057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-33323398784746653242009-02-19T19:33:00.000-05:002009-02-19T19:33:00.000-05:00or even better yet... you only have the grand retu...or even better yet... you only have the grand returned to you, -50% for every year that you played in the "franchise" part of the league.<BR/><BR/>Between this system, and bumping prized for D-3 down and D-2 UP, you should lose all/most of the complaints about classification, and in reality you now only have 3 classifications: D-3, D-2, and Open, since it would be really unfair to tell a player he is TOO GOOD to be on a D-1 team, and yet his D-1 Team sucks to bad (with him on it) to be semi proAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-89136590572460502762009-02-19T19:30:00.000-05:002009-02-19T19:30:00.000-05:00I think that the on thing comes out of this post t...I think that the on thing comes out of this post that I had not realized: the PSP IS missing the boat on "team ownership". Think what you will about the USPL, but people like it because the people behind it are (or appear to be) a comitee of team owner, wheras the "TEAM" behind PSP appears to be Keely and Lane. <BR/><BR/>I see a relatively simple solution, that would work, EVEN if only nominally.<BR/><BR/>36 Spots as "franchise"/ "owners"... WHATEVER you want to call it, of the PSP. In reality, they don't OWN anything other then a spot in the league, and a vote in (some) matters governing the league, especially rules or format changes.<BR/><BR/>These 36 teams become D-1/Semi-Pro/Pro<BR/><BR/>The top (3?) spots and the bottom (3?) spots move up/down every year. <BR/><BR/>How much does this franchise cost? Something like 1 grand, and it only allows you the possibilty to put a team into an event. If you drop to the bottom of D-1, then you have your spot taken from you and are returned your fee, and it goes to the next guy in line (D-2 TOP 3, who are not really part of the system).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-11565945544200577462009-02-19T19:05:00.000-05:002009-02-19T19:05:00.000-05:00Oops--in apples and oranges sentence it should rea...Oops--in apples and oranges sentence it should read "difference in"<BR/><BR/>And in last sentence of response to Raehl it should read "just NOT trying"<BR/><BR/>I blame a tiny unfamiliar keyboard and fat fingers.Baca Locohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-35193076559961988362009-02-19T19:02:00.000-05:002009-02-19T19:02:00.000-05:00Raehl1) it's not relevant that not all teams alway...Raehl<BR/>1) it's not relevant that not all teams always show up.<BR/>2) that is only the case from your perspective.<BR/><BR/>All you're doing is describing what is after the fact. The PSP didn't resolve to design a business model targeting inconsistent and uncertain participation.<BR/><BR/>I haven't missed any boats, Chris--nor did I allege the difference was in the nature of team ownership. You've simply done what you usually do which is try to dissect an argument without paying any attention to the totality of it or the point.<BR/>In fact, your observation of the difference is scope and scale is not an apples to oranges comparison it is a relevant consideration.<BR/><BR/>These are the sort of responses that give peeps room to figure you're just a PSP shill and youRe really smarter than that--you're just trying to look any deeper.<BR/><BR/>Lawrence<BR/>It's wht the PSP ought to be looking to become but for now I think they have a hybrid model. Hybrids being all the rage.Baca Locohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-7708234549488965642009-02-19T07:18:00.000-05:002009-02-19T07:18:00.000-05:00Chris: so is the PSP is becoming more of a circuit...Chris: so is the PSP is becoming more of a circuit with a traveling show (pro teams)?J-Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06416239725595871329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-48054473415066201062009-02-19T01:42:00.000-05:002009-02-19T01:42:00.000-05:00There seems to be a couple assumptions here that a...There seems to be a couple assumptions here that are not true.<BR/><BR/>1) AXBL knows which teams will show up - expect teams drop out of AXBL mid-season too.<BR/><BR/>2) AXBL has team ownership.<BR/><BR/>It doesn't. Team ownership structure in AXBL is exactly the same as it is in PSP. The only difference is when you pay your entry fees. And if you compare PSP Pro to AXBL, that difference is even smaller now that the Pro teams have to cough up a good chunk of change at the start of the season to get a spot.<BR/><BR/>As for PSP, I think it's pretty obvious why PSP is set up differently - a huge percentage of PSP's business is teams that play the event that is closest to them. And while playing a season of PSP is more expensive than playing a season of AXBL, playing one PSP event is a hell of a lot cheaper than playing a season of anything, and most importantly, doesn't require a season of commitment.<BR/><BR/><BR/>This whole post of yours Baca misses the boat entirely. The real difference between AXBL and PSP is that all AXBL events are within diving distance of the participants. Put all 5 PSP events in Chicago and you'd see the same results in PSP.<BR/><BR/>To take two leagues, both of which are privately owned, one of which has 4 events all across the continent, the other 4 events in driving distance of each other, and allege that differences are the result of no differences in ownership structure is just plain silly.raehlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14311405248370629057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-45615284254708299662009-02-18T13:11:00.000-05:002009-02-18T13:11:00.000-05:00the franchise system that the axbl uses, it's crea...the franchise system that the axbl uses, it's creating "organizations" instead of "teams" which we see a lot of in PSP play. Organizations are usually more organized (well imagine that), a little better backed and people know that they're going to stick around to play multiple seasons. Knowing exactly what teams are playing and knowing how well they do each event lets new players have the goal: "i want to play for team XYZ" and instead of them working during a season to get better, getting on the team and then the team folding, they're guaranteed a season if they make it. <BR/><BR/>Compared to the CFOA and PSP -- you dont know what teams are going to show up and you HOPE that a few will make it the entire season. This is the difference of a team vs an organization: you know an organization will produce a team, maybe two or three for your event, versus a team which can say: "Yes we'll be there" and then at the last minuet dumps. Looking at the PSP APPA page i see: CDR, PBV, Damage, CrossEeyed, RnT, Aftermath, and Fierce that have produced multiple teams and i can almost guarantee will show to every event this season. The rest are hit or miss.J-Birdhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06416239725595871329noreply@blogger.com