tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post8754324186343686551..comments2024-01-19T00:21:36.058-05:00Comments on View from the Deadbox: PSP Pro Division DilemmaBaca Locohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-89500078535047437872012-11-11T16:08:14.094-05:002012-11-11T16:08:14.094-05:00Anon 1:18
Just because the system isn't seamle...Anon 1:18<br />Just because the system isn't seamless from day 1 isn't a good reason to have no system.Baca Locohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-11359683281049799232012-11-11T04:21:50.448-05:002012-11-11T04:21:50.448-05:00Ehm.... dunno if this is the same anon... but I re...Ehm.... dunno if this is the same anon... but I responded to the dude saying it would only work if paintball had lengthy contracts, like major pro sports - so I responded that the scheme works perfectly well in low grade amateur sports as well.<br /><br />I don't quite know why you think it has failed in the MS - please elaborate?<br /><br />What I see, is 50+ teams all fighting vigorously to play Pro... I don't quite see how that is a failure?Nick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-15618607388422957082012-11-11T01:18:27.065-05:002012-11-11T01:18:27.065-05:00@Nick
Citing Division 12 soccer in Europe in an a...@Nick<br /><br />Citing Division 12 soccer in Europe in an argument about Pro promotion/relegation makes about as much sense as citing D5 paintball when talking about Champions league.<br /><br />Then again citing major pro sports in a discussion about pro paintball is a stretch to begin with.<br /><br />Fact is claiming promotion/relegation won't improve anything. NPPL and Millennium have proven it - even though they claim or have claimed promotion/relegation, the end result is the same system PSP uses: Pick a number of teams you like and invite the teams you need to get that number.<br /><br />If you can't count on teams surviving from one season to the next, you can't really have promotion / relegation work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-14921252193962440582012-11-10T21:52:10.374-05:002012-11-10T21:52:10.374-05:00What if the team doesn't fulfill obligations t...What if the team doesn't fulfill obligations to their players? Are those players sent to purgatory too?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-61216495643855525272012-11-10T12:25:23.764-05:002012-11-10T12:25:23.764-05:00SO you're substituting locked for contract, on...SO you're substituting locked for contract, one in the same i guess, half empty, half full....bottom line...teams should not have to worry about a player jumping ship. If players don't fulfill Obligations set out by the team when they initially joined, don't give them the opportunity to bail, let them work on their spectating skills :)NewPronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-36765012962268337072012-11-10T06:49:46.493-05:002012-11-10T06:49:46.493-05:00You are completely mistaken as to promotion and re...You are completely mistaken as to promotion and relegation needing a legal structure and multi-year contracts in place on the teams.<br /><br />First of all, promotion and relegation is not just used in professional sports in Europe - in soccer (for instance), it continues all the way down to division 12 (or whatever), where teams consist of happy amateurs that MIGHT show up to practice every once in a blue moon, and whos only loyalty to the club consists of paying the yearly 10 dollar membership fee and showing up when they have nothing better to do.<br /><br />Secondly, in the scheme I propose, the team belongs to the owner, just like today.... and just like today, he is free to sack his entire team and hire other players (between seasons).... just like in real professional sports, both sides of the Atlantic.<br /><br />Third, the ONLY problem the MS has had with the system, is that team owners were able to sell their spots in the league between seasons.... something I hear they are putting a stop to in the coming season.... once that is no longer an option, you will have team owners treat their projects with a lot more seriousness, as folding means your next attempt starts in D2 (in Europe - equivalent to D3 in the PSP).<br /><br />Without the option of selling, you get rid of all the crazyness, as a team folding will just give back its spot to the league, who will then promote the next in line, from the division below - or relegate one less team - whatever they decide the rule is for those instances.<br /><br />So, the only thing you really need for promotion/relegation to work, is to have rosters locked throughout the season, in the locked divisions, so that players have no other option of playing the PSP, than to stick with their team throughout the season - and then they can transfer to their hearts content between seasons :)Nick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-11641895266324673332012-11-10T06:40:48.025-05:002012-11-10T06:40:48.025-05:00The last anonymous post hit the nail on the head. ...The last anonymous post hit the nail on the head. The players "shit a brick", well I guarantee that when contracted players who don't fulfill contractual obligations have to watch PSP from the sidelines, they'll wish they fulfilled said obligations. What are they going to do, run to the NPPL stamping their feet. Someone just has to put their foot down. Starting with the pro division is an excellent way to get the ball rolling with this type of idea. NewPronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-68960201015357759602012-11-10T04:04:52.860-05:002012-11-10T04:04:52.860-05:003 prelim games is OK if you take 2 teams per brack...3 prelim games is OK if you take 2 teams per bracket. It's still possible for a 3-way tie to leave a one-loss team out, but that's already possible with taking 2 teams out of 5-team brackets. The only 100% solution is to always take 3 teams out of each bracket, but then you could be advancing teams that lose 3 games.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-22828304613250082412012-11-10T04:02:13.186-05:002012-11-10T04:02:13.186-05:00You can't use promotion and relegation because...You can't use promotion and relegation because paintball doesn't have teams to promote and relegate.<br /><br />In Euroland sports where promotion and relegation are used, you have actual legal entities with actual paid and contracted players. You move a team up or down, there's actually something being moved up or down.<br /><br />Most paintball teams are not set up that way. If you promote Top Gun, what, exactly, are you promoting? If the owner sacks the whole roster and that roster gets together as a new team (Heat is half of a Russian Legion), who is promoted? That's not a problem in real sports where the players are under contract preventing wholesale change like that from happening.<br /><br />You can't suggest promotion and relegation as a workable system until you're willing to demand teams have an actual legal structure and players are contracted to teams for multiple years and the league is going to enforce those contracts.<br /><br />And all the players shit a brick when the NXL tried that so I don't see promotion/relegation happening. (Sure, a league can DECLARE they're going to do it, but the result will be the same it is now with Millennium and was with NPPL, a yearly scramble to un-relegate teams and promote non-qualifying teams to get the team count to a nice-to-schedule number.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-36945276863116983822012-11-10T01:03:21.275-05:002012-11-10T01:03:21.275-05:003 prelims games only is a terrible idea.
They do ...3 prelims games only is a terrible idea.<br /><br />They do it in the MS, and it often means a team can't afford even a single loss - if they want to make sunday.<br /><br />I'd say 4 should be the minimum number of prelims games.<br /><br />But yeah, 4 brackets of 4 is 24 games only, whilst 3 brackets of 5 is 30 games.... so you might be right.... simply due to time constraints.Nick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-18934814189268131872012-11-09T23:31:35.013-05:002012-11-09T23:31:35.013-05:00If PSP winds up with 15 teams wanting a spot I wou...If PSP winds up with 15 teams wanting a spot I wouldn't be surprised if they look for a 16th team to create 4 brackets of 4 and have 3 prelim games each. That's why we were brought into the league in 06' mid season. Ryan Brandhttp://www.getmefriends.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-88067058659055550112012-11-09T17:48:51.425-05:002012-11-09T17:48:51.425-05:00As for teams wanting in from the outside... just u...As for teams wanting in from the outside... just use the same model as in Europe:<br /><br />1. Buy a spot<br />2. Start in the highest open division<br /><br />It's all temporary anyway.... a few years down the line, there will be a global pro division, and both the PSP and MS (if they still exist) will have their top division qualify 1 or 2 teams into the global pro division every year. :)Nick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-61446207494235414962012-11-09T17:45:47.234-05:002012-11-09T17:45:47.234-05:00I'd argue that promotion/relegation helps crea...I'd argue that promotion/relegation helps create the level needed to play Pro.<br /><br />At least that has happened in Europe, where we are seeing, to an increasing degree, that teams no longer move up and down, year in and year out.... and that the general level of professionalism in the semi-pro division has increased tremedously since its inception.<br /><br />There WILL be an adjustment period, over 2-3 years... but down the line, promotion and relegation gets rid of a great deal of complacency, as well as create a broader top of the sport.<br /><br />Granted, the level of play is generally a little higher in the US.... but there is no reason the same mechanics should not be in effect there too.Nick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-18061834486740855832012-11-09T17:41:46.053-05:002012-11-09T17:41:46.053-05:00appreciate the feedback.appreciate the feedback.Missy Qnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-44818143116163219402012-11-09T16:26:20.773-05:002012-11-09T16:26:20.773-05:00Missy
You're becoming tedious. Nothing better ...Missy<br />You're becoming tedious. Nothing better to do in the Canadian cold than create your own comments fantasyland?<br />Fail isn't the same as bad or evil. Really Missy is it that time of the month for you?<br />Nor have I advocated anything "they" introduced unless you're talking about Euroland sports federations in general.<br /><br />And finally--sure, yes, absolutely. If you were actually read my post you might note I didn't advocate relegating anyone now in the aftermath of the 2012 season. That would be totally unfair.<br /><br />Anon 2:40<br />That might fly except in general the D1 level of play simply isn't close enough to the Pros to merit promotion necessarily or to assume the relegated teams won't dominate. And then there's the question of player classification. New rules would have to be applied to the relegated rosters.<br /><br />And you haven't addressed the issue of outside the PSP teams wanting in.Baca Locohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-3246018812164167792012-11-09T14:40:35.028-05:002012-11-09T14:40:35.028-05:00drop the 2 worst pro teams to d1, and pick up the ...drop the 2 worst pro teams to d1, and pick up the best 2 teams from d1 every year. and the same way down the divisionals. constant new faces, and allows others to make the advance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-70378520239879200222012-11-09T14:39:15.954-05:002012-11-09T14:39:15.954-05:00On the Rage/BC Q.
LOL, at least twice. The issue ...On the Rage/BC Q. <br />LOL, at least twice. The issue was that other teams folded/quit/switched to PSP, meaning teams rarely actually got relegated. I think the PSP has a far more stable, erm, stable of Pro teams than the NPPL though. The concept is tried & tested in European sports but it requires committed Pro and Semi-Pro divisions in order to work in practice. It did make all the games interesting. There's the battle for the top, and also the battle to avoid the drop, so those lower ranked matches actually became important, which was very positive.<br /><br />The main issue with Pro/Rel in paintball is sister teams. Impact and Dynasty were both poised to have 2 teams each in the NPPL Pro division in 2007. The same could happen again unless contingencies are preparesd in advance.Missy Qnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-824899617069340592012-11-09T14:31:47.134-05:002012-11-09T14:31:47.134-05:00I am, I'm just trying to understand your own 1...I am, I'm just trying to understand your own 180. <br />Did you forget that the stuff that Pure Promotions did was bad/evil/fail? By advocating something they introduced aren't you jeapardising your reputation?<br /><br />Question. If your team was currently ranked 12th, would you still advocate this path?<br />Missy Qnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-91369041899968522282012-11-09T14:17:59.797-05:002012-11-09T14:17:59.797-05:00Missy Q -
How many times, during the Pure Promotio...Missy Q -<br />How many times, during the Pure Promotions era, were Bad Company and/or Rage relegated down?<br />Did they ever actually play down a division?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-40560480958240226362012-11-09T13:09:55.348-05:002012-11-09T13:09:55.348-05:00And here I thought you'd be pleased to have th...And here I thought you'd be pleased to have the legacy of Pure Promotions enlighted genius carried forward into the future.Baca Locohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13014510414015288907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-73678747467720379202012-11-09T11:55:26.179-05:002012-11-09T11:55:26.179-05:00Promotion and relegation. Wow, now there's an ...Promotion and relegation. Wow, now there's an idea. How did you come up with that? <br />Genius like that definitely deserves a hefty consultation fee. Missy Qnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-54586993908268901562012-11-09T11:29:24.234-05:002012-11-09T11:29:24.234-05:00How would appa going away kill paintball?How would appa going away kill paintball?nickgibsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02799866067918073115noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-73875312466002182662012-11-09T11:13:06.387-05:002012-11-09T11:13:06.387-05:00What new league?What new league?Nick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-61831282208627155762012-11-09T00:24:21.601-05:002012-11-09T00:24:21.601-05:00I'm sure Raehl will having something to say ab...I'm sure Raehl will having something to say about this lol<br />The fastest way to kill paintball would be to shut down APPA. The federation would have to cut a deal with Raehl to carry player points into this new "league".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3804718502406028481.post-80973497658403330672012-11-08T21:49:07.837-05:002012-11-08T21:49:07.837-05:00Question is how long APPA will be around, if the w...Question is how long APPA will be around, if the whole federation thing takes off..... but's that's another story ;)Nick Brockdorffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08058065730404049908noreply@blogger.com