Wednesday, July 16, 2014

Whose Penalty Is It Anyway?

I might as well admit right upfront that I'm hoping to take advantage of you--no, not just you--all y'all out there that comprise the readership of VFTD. To be honest it's a meager hope 'cus the lot of you are slackers but it's still worth a shot, and who knows, y'all might surprise me.
Here's the deal. I'm more than part way convinced one of the problems officiating competitive paintball is the options for what are considered appropriate penalties is severely limited. Pull a body or pull two bodies and on rare occasions suspend somebody for some predetermined period of time, mostly a few game minutes. Which might have been okay twenty years ago when there were more players on the field--the field was four acres of random woods--and the rulebook was a couple of hastily scribbled on pieces of ruled notebook paper. But is borderline ridiculous when a team gets a penalty because the kid grabbing empty pods steps on the field too soon.
Part of the issue is there need to be some regulatory rules--like keeping the pod kid off the field while a point is still live--but shouldn't there be a better way to handle that, penalty-wise? And there are plenty of other similar situations that pop up over the course of an event.
Here's where you come in. I need some ideas for alternatives to calling silly penalties but still maintain the necessary control over the play of the game. Got any bright, or not-so-bright ideas? Let's hear 'em.

19 comments:

Anonymous said...

Maybe a team should lose their timeout if, let's say the pod boy/coach enters the field too soon. Or maybe make those penalties on 30secs instead of a minute.

Anonymous said...

If a player gets a penalty,next point that player, or another if the original player is not on the field, they would be limited to 3 pods and a hopper.

Anonymous said...

Why not introduce a 10 or 15 second penalty at the start of the next point? They lose a gun at the breakout, but they get the player back right away.

Anonymous said...

What are the realistic, non-ridiculous range of options?

Forfeit point
1 minute
30 seconds
15 seconds
Warning Card followed by Player/Pod boy/Coach Ejection

Every ref has a red and yellow card. The ref holds the yellow card up at a player/podboy/coach to warn them. The next warning is a red card which means ejection.

Not so hard... (other than remembering who got a yellow and is deserving of a red next time!)

Nick Brockdorff said...

Give the refs the discretion to NOT make calls, when the offence has no impact on the outcome of the point.... then build the right culture amongst your refs :)

Oh, and another thing... can we please get rid of "out of bounce" in paintball? - it is a remnant of when people would leave the field to re-enter elsewhere in woodsball, and has no relevance on modern netted x-ball fields.

Baca Loco said...

Anons
Those may be fine for the pro fields. What about divisional?

Khaivien Thach said...

One player cannot engage for 30 seconds. They can go to a bunker OTB but cannot fire a shot or advance to another bunker until time is up.

redakuma pbnation said...

refs should have discretion to warm or pull penalties. Agreed freight training warrants penalties, but pod boy foul ups being equal too. Come on really? On the divisional level give the kids a break some are new to paintball and refs are not given any leeway. A warning system should be added.

7lash said...

In this instance, punish the pod-boy, not the team. Don't allow the collection of pods for that point.

Anonymous said...

No Pods.

Reduce the amount that can be carried on - force the action and reduce the tactical options.

Anonymous said...

Drag the pod boy to the middle of the field and have his own team beat him with sticks.
Worked for the Romans.

Michael Brozak said...

Obviously he's not running out in the middle of a point or he would risk getting shot to pieces, so is he coming out just before the flag is hung or before the flag hanger as been determined to be clean or dirty and the whistle blows? What's the point of penalizing him or the team anyway? If the field is live he will figure it out rather quickly and get his butt back off the field and if he doesn't then it might be interesting to watch him scramble around collecting pods while under fire. Heck the pod boy who picks up the most pods while under duress wins any ties for his team. Now that's an IDEA!

Baca Loco said...

Thach
That isn't even remotely possible.

redakuma
A warning of sorts will be given beginning in Riverside for this specific issue--and PSP refs working lower divisions do have leeway. But there are lots of similar scenarios and "answers" need to address the totality of game management, not piecemeal handle problems that come up. (Not that you suggested differently. I'm just taking this opportunity to make that point.)

7lash
That is punishing the team.

725 Anon
Sounds to me like a minor penalty is easier to swallow than your alternative. Which somebody still needs to enforce.

920 Anon
Decimation is rather more severe than I think we want to consider.

Mike
While the situation seems inconsequential there is a potential safety component the league takes seriously and also seriously you can't have non-players randomly running around the field of play.

Joshua W. said...

If you handle it as a safety issue then you could always handle it like fields do when rec ballers take off their masks. You come on early once you get a warning, second time you have to leave the pit area for the rest of the game. Might be a little harsh but does a descent job of isolating the punishment to the pod boy. Obviously if it's the coach the team will feel the effects a little more but I don't see how you can single out an integral part of the team to punish without it having adverse effects on the team as a whole.

Michael Brozak said...

Paul - it was in jest, but what am I missing? Don't they have a mask on when coming on the field?

Missy Q said...

I think Joshua's idea is sensible.

John said...

How about you just tell "podboys" or players taking the field to early etc.. that the point isn't over and to get back in the pit. It requires about the same effort and awareness as enforcing a penalty. I just don't see why officials can't manage as well as penalize.

Anonymous said...

I am sure there are numerous warnings given to players and team staff both many many times throughout a match. I am sure very many of the "stupid" penalties given to a team are things they have been warned about already. I just reffed an xball tournament this past weekend, a friend of mine came out with the bottom of his flexes rolled up. First time was a warning. Second time was a minor. He understood his own idiocy, however the rest of the team did not. Fair or not? He did get a warning. Its a rule though so he got the minor. Players should know the rules, as well as the the rest of the staff. If you cant follow the rules then the official is there to penalize you. So the officials are going to call the penalties as the rulebook is written. If the PSP or any league changes rules then thats what gets called no matter how stupid it is. In regards to the podboy penalty, what if its a player or coach that steps out, should the penalty still be the same? I say on the 2 pro fields make the team lose any person who steps on the field early for the rest of the match. Be it player, podboy or coach. Make them sit like a suspended player.

Anonymous said...

1) Limit Paint
2) Take pods. Can even do it on live players.