Thursday, August 18, 2011

To Ramp Or Not To Ramp

How stubbornly obtuse and dim-wittedly backwards are you people? Okay, not all of you people. You know, only the ones who insist that there is any difference between ramping and so-called semi-auto in today's electronic markers. You people make my eyes bleed and the ends of my hair frizz and smoke as if my head had just been shoved into an industrial furnace.
Look, it's very simple. You can debate until you're blue in the face the relative merit and skill of shooting semi-auto but the simple fact is you aren't shooting semi-auto. Ever. A tiny fraction of you may honestly believe you are--in which case you took great care to set up your marker to ensure it only discharges one shot per trigger pull. (At least as best you can tell.) Except of course you're pulling the trigger isn't what shoots your gun. And at least two of the major gun makers factory software is coded to add shots. (I'm already skirting the boundaries of my no gear talk rule so don't bother asking which gun makers because I have no intention of responding to that question. Nonetheless it's true.) The rest of you semi-auto fans set up your markers to give you a bit of an assist. Nothing special, of course. Just a setting in the sweet spot where suddenly your "skill" is optimized--and blazing fast. The lowest debounce you can go without bouncing like a bucket of Mexican jumping beans on a hot skillet. You might even admit to noticing the occasional bounce but ... ramping is the devil's handiwork. Give it a rest. The effects are identical and the only actual distinction is how efficiently your marker adds shots.
Seriously I'm fine with you semi-auto rampers. Live and let live, I say. But please, for the sake of my sanity and the common good, enough with the holier-than-thou attitude and the endless hypocritical caterwauling. I would recommend you educate yourself but I honestly find it hard to believe that more than a handful of y'all don't know exactly how your gun works and you spend way too much time lying to me in the hopes you might come to believe your own horseapples.
And if that doesn't do the trick I invite you to a NPPL event--for as long as they last--and you can come and listen and watch as players using one finger turn their semi-auto markers into instant machine guns in the blink of an eye. Time and again. The skill on display is positively breath-taking. The only reason the league capped their "semi-auto" guns is because it was the only way to pretend to regulate rate of fire. This way nobody shoots over 15 bps and nobody cares how they get there.
Grow up, smarten up or simply shut up. I don't have that much hair left.


TJ said...

I can't tell you how much I appreciate this article.

Don Saavedra said...

There is a way to regulate semi-auto but nobody likes it when I bring it up:

no guns with batteries.

See? Baca is already rolling his eyes.

Reiner Schafer said...

Rolling eyes and no hair is not a pretty sight.

Guns without batteries would also eliminate eyes and that would be a huge step backwards as far as dependability goes. I don't think you are going to convince too many people that is the way to go (in competitive paintball).

Anonymous said...

You Crazy. What about the really good guys, like me, who can easily shoot a consistent 17bps in semi? Won't that leave me, and other super-skilled trigger-men like me, at a disadvantage?
Ramping is totally cheating. You have everything back to front. Next you'll be telling us that 7-man teams all cheat by having 2 extra players on the field than they should have...

Anonymous said...

I agree with Anon. Why do you hate Semi-auto, is it because you never learned the skill of shooting fast, like I had to, and the guy above me?

Reuben said...

I'm going to take a Libertarian approach on this topic:

It's your gun you can shoot it however you like. Ramp/Semi/Full Auto/Capped/Uncapped.

When playing in a league/field you enter a contract to agree to play by the rules of whatever league/field.

Also, last I checked no one is forced to play in a league/field they don't want to. With that being said I'm sure you can leave your league/field if you don't like their rules regarding shooting speed, type, etc.

Lastly, just because you can shoot fast does not mean you shoot accurately. Nor does it mean you play all the other aspects of the game well either.

Hope this opens some views on the discussion.

Baca said...

You're welcome.

I didn't roll my eyes until I got to the part where you suggested I was rolling my eyes. I know it's tempting to claim Baca-like powers of perception but with great power comes great responsibility.
I have zero issues with competition using mech guns (and last year, or was it the year before) I even advocated it as a great introduction into competitive paintball. The only problem is nobody wants to do that anymore.

Anon #1
See what you did? Inadvertently hooked yourself a small fry in Anon #2.

Anon #2
Ask your girlfriend.

I appreciate the effort and I like the approach but it leaves me wondering if you are failing to grok the completeness of the lack of discussion necessary. You seem to suggest that there might exist varying points of view that each have some merit and that simply isn't accurate.

raehl said...

Pedaling fast is a skill/talent. But it's pretty useless in a motocross race.

Semi-auto is the same way. No matter how good you are at it, your opponent's gun is still using an engine that goes faster.

Dan said...

Is it possible to use the RF gun monitoring chip, and a board programed as accurately as it can be to prove to people that they cant clear 15 in a second? perhaps make it into a prize winning contest at cup?

Anonymous said...

I really hope that fullauto would just take over. It would mean less overshooting. As you lift your finger, the stream stops.
On "semi" and ramping you are franticly seazuring your fingers trying to shoot as fast and while you´re at it, shooting at least 2-3 balls extra every time.

Anonymous said...

Dan, its literally impossible. I'll try to explain what is going on.

When you pull the trigger and microswitch activates, after that is all about onboard electronics. You lose full control of the actual firing process. Marker will make educated guesses after that regarding things, usually for players favor. If you insert a chip between microswitch and onboard electronics, or even smarter chip that monitors switch -> board -> solenoid -> firing sequence, its still very impossible for the chip to determine that is board dropping or adding shots in terms of handling the bounce from microswitch.

And even if it the date was processed by human from the chip, it would take hours to determine what actually is going on, and to make matters even worse, it would be trivial to make the board and microswitch add data for the chip so that any sort of extra pulls would appear as shots for the chip, even if it was routed to monitor all activities.

How? Simply, because chip has no eyes to monitor is it being fucked around by the board by false microswitch activation data or not, as it cant virtually see the trigger pulling the microswitch. So it has to believe the pulse coming from the microswitch, which has no validity on its own. You can make the switch activate without ever pressing it.

Only way to be somewhat sure way to verify "true" semi auto is slowmotion camera taking a film of fingers hitting the switch - but that only proves majority of people have fuckton of bounce on their triggers, boards cheat and there is no semi in semi auto. Shooting slowmotion of "100% legit semi guns" is a hilarity.

All in all, semi auto is at best, a glorified cheatmode where teams with best technical knowhow and connections shoot fastest. It has nothing fair in it.

Anonymous said...

The only dim-wit is you Baca. You're officially in the "off the deep end" category with Chris Rahel...

Baca said...

Geez, Anon, is that all you got? Ignorant and weak. I get that some of you are enamored with your imaginary semi-auto "skill" but I live in the real world, not your fantasy land.

For the record (again) if true semi-auto were possible I'd be all for it.

Anonymous said...

There's a good way to win this argument- ban paintball guns at paintball events.

Everyone happy? No? Good!


Missy Q said...

Who's Chris Rahel, and is his wife attractive?

badum tsh

Anonymous said...

If semi auto is imaginary, what about feasting?

Anonymous said...

Baca, I love this blog. Thanks for putting rhyme to reason and defending sanity.

Baca said...

It's not enough my ears are bleeding, you had to go there?

That makes two of us--you're welcome.

Anonymous said...

If I remember correctly, Raehl had suggested a similair strategy, whether he realized it or not. ;)

Reiner Schafer said...

So humour a commoner like me. Why ramping at all? Why not go straight full auto capped at a certain ROF? Is there really much of a difference?

Anonymous said...

Rainer, various laws around the world and even in some states dont allow fullauto.

Anonymous said...

Anon #2 says:-

Pump. It's the only way to go. Cheap guns, low paint useage, no batteries required....what's not to like?

Reiner Schafer said...

Anon (under my previous post), can you give me an example of a place where there is a law against full auto for paintball markers but ramping (which is not semi-auto) is not against the law?

Anonymous said...

Save your breath Anon - there isn't one. if you're pulling the trigger and more than one shot is coming out at a time, your gun is classed as automatic and would fall foul of the law, in most european countries at least.

Your point is a good one Reiner, how can a unified world-format be agreed upon with ramping, when this would, technically, not be alowed in many 'participating' countries?

having said that - the Millennium seem to be getting away with it, for now, so I doubt it will come up until there's a problem, eg; some litigation following an injury at a Euro-event.

Mark T said...


Good to see you banging on about this still. Apart from the obvious fact that Ramping is technically illegal in most of Europe (still - nothing changed there in all these years)there are still (or at least there MUST be ways) of ensuring one activation of a trigger results in one shot.

I will continue to sit in your so called "stubbornly obtuse and dim-wittedly backwards" group and continue to hate on ramping. Another contributing factor in helping to make the game dull.