Monday, November 22, 2010

The Monday Poll

It's that time of year again. Which pro teams from 2010 will be back in 2011. It's not who will be pro in 2011--although if you want to put forward your best guess on who will be new pro teams for 2011 in comments feel free. The list includes all teams that played pro in either the PSP or NPPL in 2010. You may vote for as many teams as you think will return for 2011.

Which reminds me--where's the ProPaintball final power ranking for 2010? (Is that a self-interested question? I certainly hope so.) Listen up kids. First you vote until your poor little finger can't click your mouse anymore and then you go bug the ProPaintball kids. Vote, bug. Vote, bug.

Monday Poll in Review
I knew when I did it I shouldn't have included a couple of flippant options to last week's otherwise serious poll. Although for those of you who were joking about voluntarily stripping if this continues unresisted the time will come when it won't be a joke, or voluntary. And for those of you willing to do damn near anything to be safe here's a one question quiz for you: How many terrorists has the TSA caught? (Hint--the answer is 0.) The underwear bomber didn't slip thru security. He was allowed on board the flight he took by the intervention of U.S. embassy personnel despite the fact he had no passport and was on a watch list. The only positive from this poll is how many regular voters failed to vote. I'm taking that as a sign of discomfort with even having to think about this subject. However, if you're a MLP player you won't be able to dodge it for long.

Here are the numbers; 8% are willing to passively take it, 18% would refuse the scan and accept the patdown, 15% would refuse the patdown and accept the scan, 15% would consider alternative transportation, and 4% would reconsider playing the MLP event. 8% are prepared to protest, 24% will strip voluntarily and 28% want a copy of their girlfriend's scan. 18% will fly less often and 18% are happy to do as they're told.


Mike said...

Saw a rumor on PBnation that NPPL teams such as Dynasty/Impact are going to boycott the PSP since they have ownership (in part) of the NPPL...
Heard anything about this?
Sure hope it isn't true.

Baca Loco said...

There was some similar talk last year. My view is they are simply going to have to compete--as leagues. If, as teams, they pull out of PSP voluntarily all it will accomplish is to undercut their images and reduce their value to sponsors. In the meantime PSP just encourages new teams to fill the spots and justifies it by claiming they are the only league that reflects real competitive paintball. As long as PSP has the numbers it won't do the NPPL teams any good.

abc said...

Except for the sponsorship pile is increasingly smaller... if they have X money and that's it they have to decide how to spend it. On their own future or on the PSP+their own future combined (as long as they are successful).

So they decide... On one hand we can risk it all and build up a league which we have ownership in and can benefit from in the future if it pays off.

Or on the other hand we can contribute to sustaining a league that we will be uncompetitive in as a team within 2-4 years and will fade away with nothing to show for it but memories and glory. I'm not discounting memories and glory, but from a business sense one makes sense and but is perhaps foolhardy. The other seems just foolish.

If the PSP had any brains they would offer some sort of restricted minority equity share to their key proteams and come up with a way to do the same for other teams that "pay their dues". Yes, Dye paid their dues for a long time and why should they give up the pile of crap (with a possible diamond at the bottom) that they own for free? Well, Smart Parts doesn't have anything to show for it either...

Sometimes you can get what's "fair" or you can be successful. Imagine the coup if the PSP actually set aside up to 40% of the league to be divided amongst pro teams who "deserved" it as a way to provide longevity to those crucial teams who stick it out. With a clear ladder for others to follow after they pay their dues over X years.

Baca Loco said...

You make some points that the pros have wrestled with for some time.
My initial response to Mike was specific to the teams mentioned. While Impact has the means to do whatever Bart wants Dynasty doesn't. Dynasty is more dependent on what it's sponsors want.
In general I don't disagree with you. There will be less crossover between leagues this coming year largely for want of resources.
I even agree in principle with the rest of your suggestions however as a practical matter the NPPL isn't worth anything as a tourney series and won't be for the foreseeable future or however long it remains nothing more than a traditional tournament series. (Which is why TV is back on the table.)
With respect to the PSP the problem is that it's too much and not enough. In aggregate it could amount to a serious chunk--although in real dollars it wouldn't amount to much for the foreseeable future because (again) it's tied to a traditional tourney format--and too little in each piece to sustain a team that becomes unsustainable.

Anonymous said...

Ok Mr. ABC...

What does PSP get in exchange for giving away these minority equity shares?

You've said it yourself - the teams probably won't be any good in 2-4 years. Why entertain a permanent solution for a temporary problem? That's just creating yourself a permanent problem.

The fact of the matter is the Pro teams are replaceable. Even if some of the teams skip out on PSP, most of the best players on those teams will still show up on other Pro rosters at PSP events.

Missy Q said...

I think that if the teams, like Impact, choose to play the NPPL and not the PSP, then the Anon guy above is right, those players will turn up on PSP rosters for sure, but they would do this, presumably, either on their own dollar, or on a 3rd party dollar (not them or the team owner/sponsor), in which case the original plan has:
1. Worked for the owner (he spent less and has his team in one league as intended)
2. Worked for the player (he is still playing both leagues)
3. Worked for the PSP (they still have the players, if not under the same team-name)
4. Worked for the NPPL (they have a pro-team secured for the season.)

So, if it works for everyone, what's the issue?

abc said...

Well, you create a stable foundation of pro teams that can be built upon for success in the future. You can either have a foundation and build on it. Or rely on new teams to keep building their own foundation and then die off just as they get the footings poured.

I guess I just like the idea of a "dynasty" of teams that can continue. Or maybe a "legacy" (teehee) Ironmen, Dynasty, Aftershock, XSV, Legion, feeding in some of the new teams as they come up and prove themselves (Damage) and pay their dues as well. I'm not suggesting any specifics... but it's not hard to fathom some kind of deal where the equity is restricted for X number of years and the team has to fulfill Y number of perquisites before it has ownership of its shares. That's what lawyers are for...

What the PSP gets is stability. In any relationship, particularly one with a financial base, if one side is maximizing its gains without regard to the long term stability of the other partner, it's a recipe for instability.

I think the PSP would be more stable with a core group of interested teams. I would imagine if Bart/Impact was as committed to the PSP as they are to the NPPL the PSP would be even better.

Your question Anon. is like asking what does a manufacturer get by giving it's distributor a better margin. In a relationship, you are "buying" your partner. A manufacturer is "buying" a motivated and interested distributor with a better margin. That margin is the cost of their being excited and interested to go out and sell the product.

The PSP would be "buying" the long term interest of the organizations. Granted there are some pro teams that are just along for the ride. I didn't say they should all have ownership. Restricted... proven. But surely a team like RL has demonstrated they are committed to the league and could even be further committed, I would assume, if they had an incentive to do so.

Don Saavedra said...

Concerning the power rankings... what would be the point? Once the Champions were crowned... that's the power ranking! How the teams were ranked at the end is the ranking.

ESPN doesn't do power rankings past the regular season, I believe. No point. It's all been proven by the play on the field, no conjecture needed.

I guess a power ranking now would introduce the opinions of the writer about which is tougher, or deserves more weight: 7-man or RaceTo. And that's quite a can of worms to be opening.

Anonymous said...


A manufacturer cares about the distributor because the distributor sells the manufacturers product, making the manufacturer money.

You seem to be operating under the mistaken assumption that PSP gets more value out of 12 Pro teams than 8. Or even 6. Because the "foundation" of tournament paintball isn't the Pro teams. They're the marquee event, but it's the divisional teams that pay the bills.

So what does PSP get out of a "committed" Pro team?

It would seem to be... not much.

abc said...

Anony..Then I suppose the NPPL Pro league is just as exciting as the PSP one from a consumer perspective? (false)

Then I suppose the original NXL league was just as exciting from a consumer perspective as the Open PSP league in the day when Dyna, Ava, Dogs, etc. were battling it out in the Open div? (false, crowds followed the open div)

Then I suppose the NXL league was just as exciting as the Super 7 league once Infamous came into being and there was the whole Dyn-Inf-Xsv battle? (false)

I suppose there are a core staple of teams that make a difference. (true)

I suppose not all of them are needed? (true)

Anonymous said...

Make a difference in what?

None of the differences you cited resulted in the league making more money.

If Impact AND Damage didn't play PSP, MAYBE that would effect something. Short of that, it won't make any difference to PSP's bottom line, and if it doesn't matter to the bottom line, there's no reason to be giving out any sort of equity stake.

abc said...

Sheesh... if Impact and the other teams had no reason to leave the PSP and start the NPPL the competing league would be dead in the water.
That's what they gain. The high value teams sticking close.

No one in their right mind will run to a league being flogged by Indian Mutiny (even though they are good guys).

The PSP is buying loyalty, longevity, and reduced competition, in a contracting marketplace.

abc said...

And I'm not saying they "left" the PSP. But why would Dyn or Impact or whatever big team invest money into one league when they are already invested in the "big" one.

They would quickly conclude it would be dumb to do so. Put your eggs in one basket and watch that basket.

Baca Loco said...

For any Pro team that is planning beyond tomorrow and intends to have a future if at all possible then abc is correct.
The tensions that exist are:
The desire to compete and be the best
How much influence do sponsors want?
Having some say and control over the team's future
Deriving some return on all the effort, money & results invensted and achieved.

Right now everyone is walking a narrow path and if circumstances continue to push teams into a position where they have to decide to play one or the other they will pick the one they have a stake in.

We began playing 7-man because it gave the team a voice and had the potential to deliver a future.

Anonymous said...

Paintball teams are dumb. That's really all there is to it.

No matter what league the Pro teams play in, if the league does well, the teams will do well, because they will have value as teams even if they have no ownership in the league. NASCAR is set up like that, as is football/soccer in most of the world.

But Pro paintball teams seem to think they should get ownership in something, with a payment of promising to show up. That's not the way the world works.

The team has more value in a league you don't own that goes somewhere than a league you do own that goes nowhere.

The Pro teams have put 2 years into NPPL so far. What do they have to show for it? You get to be Bart's bitch instead of Dave's bitch?