Monday, October 19, 2009

Shooting the 50 Cal Paintball

This week's Monday Poll will be posted on Tuesday. (Mostly 'cus I spent a huge chunk of the day traveling home from Vegas and my priorities once I got home didn't include a blog post--for once. Oh, and this one doesn't count as it's an easy one to crank out. 10 minutes tops.)

A reliable source--you'll just have to take my word for it--has shot close to a case of the currently available paint in an xball field setting. This paint was shot at approx. 280 fps and carried end to end and corner to corner with a small adjustment (to barrel elevation.) Overall it seemed pretty close to the 68 norm. [Although I gotta say it didn't seem like a real competition situation which might alter player perception.] It was also shot at players to see what would happen and the anecdotal view is that it didn't sting as much, marked well and broke at better than a 50% rate. Though I'm unclear if that means a 40-50% bounce rate or what. Still, that may not be too bad given the available formula isn't supposed to be the final tourney grade fill.

One of my concerns was confirmed though (apparently) as the small ball went through the upper half netting on a PSP standard field set-up. You know, the lighter weave stuff at ten feet and above.

I don't think it means a great deal (but if confirmed the netting issue is big) or answers all the questions but it is an interesting addition to information we have about the small ball.

UPDATE: Today's word, boys & girls, is 'reading comprehension'. Okay, that's two words but try to stay focused. First, when I say "reliable source" it does not mean infallible or even necessarily disinterested. It means someone I know who would not blatantly lie. And when I say 'anecdotal' I mean precisely that. This is not about facts, it's about impressions. Was the expressed viewpoint skewed or swayed or shaded? Possibly but what we do know despite all else is that current netting will NOT contain a 50 cal ball at even a presently legal velocity. We know that the current formula used to display the product breaks maybe half the time--at best--in something like a real world situation and at the very limited ranges involved in playing xball aiming is NOT the same. Maybe you read that as a stirling endorsement, I did not.

27 comments:

franktankerous said...

Good to hear. Maybe this won't change things as much as we were all worried it would. My biggest concern now lies with the website 68caliber.com will they make the change over as well and will the new site have a smaller default font?

Anonymous said...

Where did you meet people who live on the moon?

Reiner Schafer said...

I'm not a big fan of anonymous sources. I hope your reliable source isn't a 50 cal. sponsored/paid player. Others doing testing aren't having nearly as much luck with breakage at those distances.

Not stinging as much sounds right since the ball would have been closer to the end of it's flight path (going slower than .68 at the same distance).

Jii said...

Back when I was in school, I heard of a dead guy called Newton. He had figured out that a few centuries from his day there will be claims of a small, light magic ball that will travel equal distance to a not-so-small and a bit heavier ball once they are propelled at the same muzzle velocity.

"Mass!", he screamed, "It can't be done, try it with a pea and a plum!"

Little does he know now, he's dead.

Industry In/Outsider said...

@Reiner

If I'm right, the source of this information is a person working for a company with a vested interest in pushing .50 caliber.

Reiner Schafer said...

Industry In/Outsider, if I had to guess, that would be my conclusion as well, but since he wants anonymity, we will be gracious enough to grant it, and won't make any guesses.

Jii, are you suggesting the balls will travel the same distance here on Earth? Even our reliable source admitted to adjusting the barrel angle upward to achieve the same distance.

Anonymous said...

If the barrel angle has to be adjusted upwards, even if you believe everything else, that's still a huge competitive disadvantage, as at the higher angle the paintball must travel a longer path to get there. Since the higher angle is necessitated by an overall slower velocity, you're doubly screwed on the paintball taking a long time to get to the target.

As long as the target is looking, you won't be able to hit him, as they will be able to see the paintballs coming.

Damien said...

I was one of the few at World Cup on the semi pro field, after the games, watching Chris Lasoya shooting the Nano (.50 cal) at about 280 fps with whatever grade of paint they had at the GI Milsim booth.
From about 10ft in, Chris shot a goggle place on top of the back center bunker. Every single paintball that touched the goggle broke. (Chris is a good shot but still missed a couple at what was about 110-120ft)
To be fair, he then had a guy running from back center to the corner and shot at him. For what i remember, 3 paintballs were on target but none broke.
Another try was to shot at Mike from TechPB at 90ft. Most of the paintball broke on him, leaving him with paint splatters and welts.
(video on YouTube : "mike from techpb gets hit by .50 cal paintballs")

A convincing demo overall. Keep in mind Chris was shooting 280fps, under 85% humidity and 95 degrees, with paintballs that are not tournament grade...

Newton or not, I can't wait to see how it's gonna be at 300fps with better paint.

Baca Loco said...

Today's word, boys & girls, is 'reading comprehension'. Okay, that's two words but try to stay focused. First, when I say "reliable source" it does not mean infallible or even necessarily disinterested. It means someone I know who would not blatantly lie. (In this particular case the source is NOT Chris Lasoya.) And when I say 'anecdotal' I mean precisely that. This is not about facts, it's about impressions. Was the expressed viewpoint skewed or swayed or shaded? Possibly but what we do know despite all else is that current netting will NOT contain a 50 cal ball at even a presently legal velocity. We know that the current formula used to display the product breaks maybe half the time--at best--in something like a real world situation and at the very limited ranges involved in playing xball aiming is NOT the same. Maybe you read that as a stirling endorsement, I did not.

Anonymous said...

How do we know that the gun at Cup was shooting at 280?

It is interesting that they chose 90 ft as the break-on-player test distance, as that lines up with what other testers are noting: The .50 cal balls mostly break at 90 feet, but mostly bounce at 100 feet.

paintball sniper said...

Gonna be interesting to see how the new paintballs effect the sport

Industry In/Outsider said...

@Damien

Interesting, considering that other people who were on that field at the time (Jack Rice from Alien) reported they were told the paint velocity was about the same but when they checked with their own chrono, it was about 330 fps.

Reiner Schafer said...

I believe it was Scott, Jack's son who witnessed about 7 balls being chronoed afterwards in the 315 to 335 range.

franktankerous said...

The fact that even with the possible smoke a mirrors used by the GI milsim group(in conditions they set up), the outcome didn't blow anyone away. Also their excuse that this was not tourney paint is bullshit. They knew they would be demoing the guns to people and I'm sure they brought the best paint they have been able to produce to date, keeping it in optimal conditions to make sure it breaks on target. If they didn't then they are fucking stupid.

But never fear paintball players. Soon enough when the products hit the market you will get to vote with your own dollars. No marketing scheme is going to convince people to get rid of $2500 worth of gear to by $2500 worth of new gear for an inferior product. Not even the PBnation kids are that retarded....

Used to be a pro said...

The best part of the .50 cal movement.
1. The # of paintballs that fit in a hopper - appox. 400.
2. The # of paintballs held in pod approx. 350
3. The point of .50 cal (I beleive to save money in manf. cost which should be extended to the consumer)
4. Now if you beleive that reasoning, you might as well as give Richmod your pay check now. If you think about it, the concept is genius. What paintball player especially tournmanet player carries just 1 pod. (No One) Players will consume twice as many paintballs if not more. Smaller paintballs=More paint carried and shot. Back players will easily carry 6 pods - front 3-4 pods. You do the math.....

Don Saavedra said...

I was with you right up until the end, franktankerous...

But then you went too far.

Anonymous said...

.50 cal will finally bring us to the point where it will feel like it is literally snowing paintballs on the field.

They'll all bounce, of course, but it'll be snowing!

Anonymous said...

Oh dear, if they're cooking the FPS numbers already....

franktankerous said...

Don come on deep down you know they could figure it out. Sure they're a bunch of mouth breathers, but whether they can explain it using words or not I think they will know better...

I'm not prepared to take any bets on the matter, but I guess I'm just holding out hope for all paintball kind.

Anonymous said...

bounces off break = bigger breakouts? Ya'll are too negative.

Industry In/Outsider said...

@Used to be a pro

I would like for you to explain to me how cheaper paint (without major changes in cost of material and manufacturing) will be better for paintball. Please, while explaining, also take into account the effect of cheaper paint on manufacturers and dealers. And don't forget about the natural limit of paintball's growth.

Used to be pro said...

I was being facetious, I think the whole .50 cal movement is a money making scheme. Look whose involved the same 3 guys that tried to take paintball to TV and left us with nothing. It always been about the money and politics with the key people in this industry. I get that, but these people have just raked us over the coals and left us with nothing when things dont work. Lasoya's Richmonds puppet, dudes older then Frank the Tank. These guys will wave their magic wands, convince everyone they know whats best for the industry, make money and sell it to another venture capatalist. Seen the same song and dance. Good luck to you all and have fun shooting 40 cases a paint again per match with no sponsorship

Missy Q said...

So, other than Chris & Richmond, & the gardners, is anyone actually FOR 50cal?

Reiner Schafer said...

The Japanese?
A few kids on the Nation?

Don Saavedra said...

I would consider myself "FOR" .50cal if the promised benefits are real. I don't care if someone makes money off my fun times so long as I'm getting my money's worth of fun. It's not even a concern to me. "... I think the whole .50 cal movement is a money making scheme." Well, duh! If they don't make money it's hardly worth their time, now is it? Should all paintball manufacturing be run as a charity?

Anonymous said...

The problem is nobody who isn't on the take believes the promised benefits are real.

Missy Q said...

I believe they're real!

Do I need to post my address so I get the 'free stuff?'