Friday, July 24, 2009

It's Official

I'm a hypocrite. For years I've been saying venues don't matter, competitive paintball matters. And I still believe that but--but-- SC Village may be a famous paintball site. (It is.) It may have hosted historic events (it has) but seriously, the place is a godforsaken dump in the middle of freaking nowhere. It's piles of dirt on top of more dirt and the parking lot may have been an open pit mine at one time.

Like it or not the venue matters in a couple of ways. There aren't too many 4 star restaurants at truck stops. And I'm now unsure whether or not there can really be a major league event at a place like SC Village--which is otherwise a perfectly acceptable rec field--except, again, for being out in the middle of freaking nowhere. Did I mention it was out in the middle of freaking nowhere?

Granted I'm used to lots of green grass and big leafy trees but that really isn't the problem. Back when NPPL v.2 was touring NFL parking lots I didn't think that was a good idea either. So obviously I'm just impossible to please. The thing with the stadiums was they were supposed to attract spectators and supply competitive paintball with some cache. (There should be an accent over the e but I don't know how to do that in Blogger.) What it did was cost too much and distract from more important concerns--at least from my point of view. It wasn't that they were bad venues--sometimes they were very cool venues--but if the venue was a higher priority than say, the officiating, that's a problem.

So maybe the thing about a venue is that it does have a place in the overall scheme of things competitive paintball related. And maybe after every place paintball has been in the last decade an SC Village simply doesn't cut it anymore. Or maybe it does and I'm just being difficult. At the same time from what I've seen of the location for the DC Challenge it looks pretty damn good.
What's the answer? I'm not sure. Maybe this ought'a be the next Monday Poll. If venue matters, how much? Does a major league event have to have a major league venue? And just what qualifies as a major league venue?
Is the PSP's MAO a major league venue? Or the Phoenix Open on the soccer fields outside the Arizona Cardinals' stadium?


anonachris said...

Does it still stink like a cow pasture?

I see no problem between SC and MAO. Unless SC has poor grass. MAO has good grass, so that's all I care about.

Pelc said...

That's all i've been hearing. Everyone out there is so bored and there are so little teams and they're playing the games quick so everyones out early and bored.

Anonymous said...

I might be wrong but i don't recall a Major League going to shit holes in any other sports. That's all SC Village is...
You did mention "out in the middle of freaking nowhere" and in a way, i wish! 'cause "nowhere" wouldn't be that close of 10 millions tons of cow crap... way too close to the site.
MAO has awesome grass. They also have everything else about 5 minutes down the road, from restaurant to hotels... there's even a theater at the next exit!
Can somebody please point out 2 positive things from the SC Village location ?

I don't speak spanish so i checked what "Chula Vista" means on Babelfish (online translator for those who were wondering) : i got "insolent view"...
The view there is definitely overbearing... mostly for a Major Paintball League and for all of us (stupid enough, i should add) paying to be there.

Joran said...

What matters to me is:
& toilets! said...

Hey Anon,

2 positive things (you asked);

Cost to run event at the park (zero) &
historical significance.

Why they put an event at an established paintball park and did not advertise it on the road that EVERYONE has to enter in on is beyond me.

Over 1,000 paintball players rolled by the professional event this weekend and not one of them knew that that a tradeshow was taking place and pro paintball was being played and they could watch for FREE.

WHY!? Talk about a squandered opportunity. :(

Anonymous said...

Hey ProPaintball,
I knew you would pull the "zero cost" card, that's why i asked for 2 good reasons...
"Historical significance", mmmmm, maybe. They hosted a lot of events, true. A lot of major events, kinda true. That still doesn't make SC Village the decent spot for a major league event.
Look at your own website, the picture 57ac9527... it does look like crap.

Any way, Congrats to Arsenal and the other winners.
As Caesar said "Veni, Vidi..." but i won't be back next year.

Reiner Schafer said...

As an outsider looking in, I've always felt that those running National and International paintball events have often tried to go beyond what they probably should be doing at this stage in the paintball evolutionary point. The saying, "Champaign taste, beer budget" comes to mind. Or to translate a german saying I heard growing up, "Trying to piss with the big dogs, but unable to lift their leg high enough."

Sure, staging an event in the Sky Dome is cool, but someone's got to pay for it. It's all part of trying to make paintball appear to be bigger than it actually is. As long as "sponsors" were willing to foot much of the bill because they thought it was worth it to spotlight the game and attract more growth, the it worked )sort of). But if the bill is to be paid by participants and spectators (oh yeah, paintball isn't much of a spectator sport), then it's going to be very difficult to stage tournaments in first class facilities.

The problem is cutting back to the level paintball probably should have been all along, leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. It also makes it seem that tournament ball is moving backwards, which means even more participants will bail (see post above mine).

Joe R said...


I'd agree with your last post up until the last paragraph. I certainly agree that our national-level tournaments are nowhere near ready for events the size and scale that require stadiums. However, there are certain expectations that could, and should be met, based on the size of the event and the amount of money collected as entry fees (and also based on vendor participation).

As an example, if I'm playing a local (non-national) event, I don't expect the referees from the PSP pro field to be officiating. I also would be foolish to expect paved (or at least a large, open, non-mudpit) parking. It would be unreasonable for me to expect a 'tradeshow', etc etc. Now, if I'm paying 20 times that entry fee, I'd expect a similar ratio of what my fee is used for to go toward an improved facility. Ok parking, better quality referees, possibly some food or paintball vendors, and other considerations for players.

Ultimately, from an event promoter's standpoint, when some simple amenities are excluded, and a venue with similar convenience could be utilized that ended up providing more of these basic considerations, I see little reason that a better venue couldn't be secured.

anonachris said...

Joe makes a good point. When a national event is basicall turning itself into a field event what is your extra money buying you? Just the priviledge of saying you got to play in "the USPL"?

As far as being a hypocrite Baca, I don't think you're one actually. I think your entirely consistent in your desire to smack down the USPL for dreaming the impossible dream and now you have a credible and very public justification to do it.

I really don't understand why they thought they could run this league. Well I do understand... when you work in tournaments for ever that what you begin to see as what you should do next. It's a spin on the old saying, when all you have is a hammer every problem begins to look like a nail. These guys have been living, breathing, thinking about tournaments for years. It's only naturally they'd move straight into tournaments trying to make it work, deluding themselves that it could actually work this time. But that's a tangent for another day...

Reiner Schafer said...

Joe R. Yes, I should have said that National level tournaments should be held to a minimum standard. I just think organizers were raising the bar too high, too fast, with the hopes of "If you build it, they will come."

I have never been to SC Village, so I really have no idea what it's like. It may very well be below the standards that National Level tournaments should be.

Baca Loco said...

Some good stuff, kids. Thanks for posting.

I don't think I'm a hypocrite either but I can see how that charge might be leveled. But I do want to set one thing straight. This wasn't about smacking down the USPL. While it's true I thought the effort ill-conceived from day one and predicated on unrealistic preconceptions I am sympathetic to the core idea of team ownership.

anonachris said...

I agree team ownership is an awesome idea. I'm competely unsympathetic to the creation of this league and especially at this time. But in general after we've had 2 incarnations of the NPPL rise and fall, why are we starting a 3rd one? (from the same group of people noless--which pretty much answers the why question)

Tony said...

anonachris said...
I agree team ownership is an awesome idea. I'm competely unsympathetic to the creation of this league and especially at this time. But in general after we've had 2 incarnations of the NPPL rise and fall, why are we starting a 3rd one? (from the same group of people noless--which pretty much answers the why question)

Same Group of people,(teams were never owners in the NPPL) This League was made by 7 man team owners who wanted to keep playing seven man that is all. Any profits made from the first year of running the league (if there were any) are going right back into the league. I agree with SC village it hasn't changed a bit in 6 years since I was there but most of those players today have never seen a park that size. Did they take a drive back and see those Rec ball fields, most of the guys with me wanted to go ball out there if we had time.

Tony 'Ice" Savage
Arsenal Corp

Missy Q said...

Perhaps teams won't just assume that they are best placed to own/run a league now.
Perhaps they will not think they are getting ripped off in the future.
Perhaps they will respect people that do run events for them to play in more in the future, and understand thge time, work and investment that goes into it.

There are a ton of potential positives...